iekbwl mwhl lwTw bMdw hY[ jd vI imlygw, KuS-KuS Awpxy hI rMg iv`c rMigAw hoieAw[ klwkwrW qy klw-pRymIAW dw s`cw AwSk[ klw Kyqr dy cMgy lokW nMU iml ky auhnMU AMqW dI KuSI l`BdI hY[ smyN-smyN auhny bhuq swry klwkwrW qy ilKwrIAW dI h`doN v`D ie`zq kIqI, mdd kIqI Aqy aunHW leI kMm vI kIqy, ^Ub nwmxw K`itAw, koloN nwvW lwieAw[

mwhl nMU pihlI vwrI mYN muhwlI ivc ho rhy iek s`iBAwcwrk myly dOrwn pMj ku swl pihloN imilAw[ gzl gwiek jgjIq isMG dw BulyKw pwauNdw auh pMfwl ivc tihldw iPr irhw sI, pwiksqwnI slvwr-kurqw pihinAw hoieAw, pYrIN sYNfl, nzr vwlIAW AYnkW ivcoN dI Jwkdw Awpxy jwxUMAW nMU l`Bdw kdI sMqoK isMG DIr dy gofIN h`Q lw irhw sI qy kdI krnYl isMG pwrs rwmUvwlIAw nMU j`PIAW pw irhw sI[

kYnyfw PyrI mOky aus nwl keI imlxIAW hoeIAW qy ieh g`l hor vI cMgI qrHW in`Kr ky swhmxy AweI ik ikvyN auh AwpxI AiqAMq ruJyivAW BrI izMdgI ivcoN eyDroN gey klwkwrW, ilKwrIAW qy klw-pyRmIAW leI Ku`lHw-f`ulHw vylw k`Fdw hY, hryk smwgm ivc jw hwzrI luAwauNdw hY[ ilKx-pVHn ^wqr vylw bcwauNdw hY[ hr vyly ru`Jy rihxw auhdI bcpn qoN Awdq hY[ hYrwnI huMdI hY jdoN auhdy GroN purwxy qoN purwxy ausqwd gv`eIAW dy irkwrf l`Bdy hn, iksy nwl auh mulwkwq kr irhY, iksy dI jIvnI au~qy fwkUmYNtrI bxweI hY, iksy dw AY~l. pI. bxwieAw hY, iksy dI typ kIqI hoeI hY, iksy gwiek dw durl`B qvw hY, hor keI k`uJ auh pqw nhIN ikQoN-ikQoN sMBwlI bYTw hY[ iksy klwkwr dI g`l qor lvo, auh ivc ih`sw zrUr hI pweygw, hryk bwry auhdI jwxkwrI BrpUr hY[ klwkwrW nwl bxy nyVly myl-jol ny hI aus qoN pusqk 'surW dy sudwgr' ilKvweI qy aus pusqk dy crcy chuM pwsIN hoey[ ievyN auh au~Gy-au~Gy gv`eIAW qy sMgIqkwrW ivc hor vI hrmn-ipAwrw bx igAw[ klwkwrW bwry, mwhl dy SOk qy ieho ijhIAW hor sMKyp g`lW-bwqW aus nwl kIqIAW, jo pwTkW leI pyS hn[

? quhwfy ipCokV Aqy mu`Fly vyly qoN hI g`l SurU kro[

- myrw j`dI ipMf mwhl gihlW, bMigAW dy iblkul lwgy hY, FweI iqMn mIl dI dUrI 'qy hY[ myrw jnm myry nwnky mwihlpur lMgyrI hoieAw sI[ myry bwbw jI, jo sYNtr ivc AYksIAn sn, ny irtier hox qoN bwAd, 1948 'c rwjpury nyVy bsMqpurw ipMf ivc zmIn lY leI sI[ Awpxy j`dI ipMf, mYN AwpxI izMdgI dw bhuq QoVw smW ibqwieAw hY[ mYN pMjwb rihMidAW bhuqw smw mwlvy ivc hI guzwirAw hY[ myrIAW bhuqIAW sWJW mwlvy ivc hI hn[ auNJ mYN do swl bMgy 1961 qoN 1963 q`k is`K nYsLnl kwlj ivc p`iVHAw hW[ myry nwnky pirvwr ivc qkrIbn swry mwstr-mwstrnIAW hn qy dwdky myry ieMjnIAr… ienHW dohW pirvwrW dw sMgIq jW klw nwl koeI vwh-vwsqw nhIN sI, myry bwbw jI Gr ivc mwVw motw kdI ryfIE KbrW suxn leI suxdy sn, pr myry cwcw mnjIq isMG jI nMU gwaux dw SOk sI qy auh bwbw jI qoN corI corI vwjw lY ky pSUAW vwly kmry ivc gwauNdy sn[ gwaux-vjwaux nMU koeI vDIAw kMm nhIN sn mMndy[ KYr, mYN nOvIN-dsvIN jspwloN qoN kIqI, auhnIN idnIN mYN qy myry do hor dosq, AsIN rl-iml Xmlw jI dy gIq suxdy qy gwauNdy sW, mYN GVw vjwauxw, ie`k ny qUMbI[ dorwhy myry qwieAw jI fwktr eISr isMG qy myrI qweI jI BgvMq kOr jI nMU swihq nwl mu`F qoN lgwA irhY, aunHW dy Gr 'pRqIlVI' vI AwauNdI sI qy mYN pVHdw sW[ ieauN aunHW kol rihMidAW mYnMU pMjwbI swihq pVHn dw SOk pY igAw[ iPr hOlI-hOlI mYnMU ieauN l`gx l`g ipAw beI ie`k-A`Dw fMg rotI nw KwvW qW guzwrw ho jweygw, pr pVHy-suxy ibnHW nhIN[ jy koeI surIlI Awvwz nw suxdw qW mn ivAwkul ho auTdw[

? ikho ijhI surIlI Awvwz?

- suirdr kOr dI msqwnw jI dI vysy mYnMU klwsIkl gwiekI vI psMd hY qy Pok vI, jo mn nMU tuMby[ hux vI mNY jo mn ƒ Bwey sux lYnW…klwsIkl qoN lY ky 'bwbw bKqOrw' q`k, sux ky vI AwnMd Aw jWdY[ cmkIly dy gwxw 'jd pihlI lWv pVHI hwey nIN Bu`b inkl geI myrI', mYnMU ies ivc vI kuJ cMgw l`igAw[ mYN sMgIq nMU iebwdq smJdW[

? pMjwb qoN bdyS Awaux dw sbwb ikvyN bixAw?

- myry pwpw jI 1962 'c ieMglYNf Aw gey sn, Bwrq ivc auh hweI skUl dy tIcr sn [ aunHW ny 1963 ivc mYnMU, myry Coty Brw qy mwqw jI nMU vI Awpxy kol s`d ilAw[ ieMglYNf mYN pMj ku vrHy gujwry hn[ ieQy mYN kMm vI krdw irhw, pVHdw vI irhw auqoN bwAd 1968 ivc kYnyfw p`ky qOr 'qy Aw igAw[

? iPr eyQy Awx ky kI-kI kIqw[ kMm-kuMm bVy krny pey hoxgy

- kYnyfw myry leI iekdm Eprw sI[ ieQy myrw koeI irSqydwr nhIN sI[ jy koeI mwVI-motI vwkPI sI, auh goirAW nwl sI[ auh vI torwtoN qoN cwlI-pMjwh mIl bwhr sn[ nOkrI vI nhIN sI l`BdI[ ieMglYNf qoN AwauNidAW pYsy vI nwl QoVHy hI ilAwieAw sW, ikauNik auhnIN idnIN ieMglYNf ny bwhr krMsI iljwxI bMd kIqI hoeI sI[ qy jdoN myry kol pYsy mu`kx vwly ho gey[ iPr jo vI kMm imilAw auh kIqw[ iek ickn PYktrI murgy k`tx vwlI ivc kMm iml igAw[ ieQy bhuqy purqgwlI kMm krdy sn ijnHW nMU AMgryzI vI bolxI nhIN sI AwauNdI[ myrw kMm sI ik jdoN auh bwrW jW vIh murigAW nMU f`by ivc pwauNdy, mYN auhnW nMU qoldw, bwhr lybl lwauNdw qy AgWh D`k idMdw[ ieh kMm mYN Cy-s`q hPqy krdw irhw[ sMGrS qW krnw hI pYNdw AY[ mYnMU luk-lukoA r`Kx dI Awdq nhIN[ hr ivAkqI nMU aus dI mMizl imhnq qoN ibnHW nhIN imldI[

? ryfIE nwl ikvyN juVy[

- 1975 dI g`l AY, iek idn iSv dy nWA Swm mnweI qW mYN au~Qy boilAw[ iksy bMdy ny mYnMU styj auqy bolidAW suixAw qy mYnMU Awxky pu`iCAw ik kI qusIN myrw ryfIE pRogrwm kroNgy? nwl myry kuldIp dIpk sI[ AsIN SurU kr ilAw 'pMjwb dI Awvwz' mYnMU Xwd AY... ie`k GMty dw pRogrwm AsIN A`T GMitAw ivc irkwrf kIqw sI, ies kMm dI swnMU dohW nMU koeI smJ nhIN sI[ holy holy mYN ieh kMm is`Kdw irhw, ie`t nwl ie`t juVdI rhI... juVdI rhI[ solW swl ryfIE kIqw[ iPr 1981 qoN tI. vI 'ivXnz AwP pMjwb' tI.vI. pRogrwm SurU kIqw! … bVy swl ho gey hn[

? qusIN bhuq swry gwiek-gwiekwvW nMU prmot kIqw, nwmvr prmotr ho[ brwfkwstr dy qOr `qy vI au~Br ky swhmxy Awey[ pihlW ikhVw klwkwr sI, ijs dw qusW SoA krvwieAw qy ies Kyqr ivc A`gy v`Ddy gey[

- Awsw isMG msqwnw qy puSpw hMs 1977 ivc ie`Qy iksy ny s`dy[ SoA bhuq sPl nw hoieAw[ mYN aunHW nMU p`uiCAw ik jykr iek SoA mYN krvw idAW... auh pu`Cx l`gy beI kI idEgy? mYN ikhw, jo bixAw swrw eI iehnW dw[ so QoVHI-bhuqI B`j dOV kIqI, hwl b`uk kIqw, cMgI g`l ieh hoeI ik swfw SoA AwsW qoN v`D sPl ho igAw[ jo bixAw, sB aunHW nMU dy id`qw[ iPr ieauN hI hOslw v`Ddw igAw qy jgmohn kOr hurIN Awey, aunHW dw SoA krvwieAw[ iPr 1978 'c pihlI vwrI mYN jgjIq qy icqrw isMG nMU ieMfIAw qoN ilAwieAw sW, ieh Asl ivc ienHW dI SurUAwq sI[ jdoN klwkwr au~Tdw AY, audoN auh hr qrHW dw smJOqw krn nMU iqAwr huMdY[ ikauNik lokIN auhƒ jwxdy nhIN huMdy[ jgjIq-icqrw Awey, nwl iek qbly vwlw sI, qy auhnW dw Awpxw lVkw ivvyk sI[ (ijs dI mOq ho cuwkI hY) myry Gr do-FweI mhIny rhy[

1979 ivc suirMdr kOr Aqy jgjIq jIrvI nMU auqrI AmRIkw dy v`K v`K sihrW ivc pyS kIqw[
1982 ivc gurdws mwn dw pihlw SoA torWtoN ivc mYN krvwieAw sI[ mYnMU KuSI AY... aus dy SoA dIAW itktW iqMn idn pihlW ivk cu`kIAW sn[

? hzwrw isMG rmqw qy jgjIq isMG qy hor keI klwkwrW dy qusIN irkwrf bxwey, ieh bVw irskI kMm sI ikvyN kIqw ieh sB[

- (h`sdy hoey) bxwey qW sPlqw nwl… pr vycx dy mwmly 'c mYN s`c d`sdw… mYnMU Xwd AY 'qyry ipAwr dy pwqr' ijhVw AY~l. pI. pyS kIqw, auh dI swrI pMj sO kwpI bxweI sI[ mYnMU d`sidAW bVw du`K AY… swihqk gwiekI qy rcnwvW nMU lokW gOilAw eI nhIN[ zIrvI ny mISw nMU gwieAw[ iSv dIAW rcnwvW vI sn[ vkq dI g`l AY, ey. AYs kMg dy gwey 'ig`iDAW dI rwxIeyN' gIq qoN bwAd lok n`cx dy mUf 'c Aw gey[….. qy hW rmqw jI eyQy Awx ky izMdgI bsr krn leI tYksI clwauNdy sI[ aunHW nMU bwhr k`iFAw, pUMiJAw, sMvwirAw[ aunHW nMU ikhw, nvIAW rcnwvW ilKo[ iPr irkwrf kIqIAW[ iPr crcw 'c Awey[ hux aunHW dI aumr 76 swl ho c`lI AY[ mYnMU aunHW 'qy bVw mwx AY, aunHW dw Awpxw ivl`Kx rMg AY, pMjwbI dy cMgy sulJy hoey Swier ny pMjwbI qoN ielwvw aurdU vI ilKdy ny[ mYN jgjIq qy icqrw isMG, Awsw isMG msqwnw, suirMdr kOr, rmqw jI, msqwnw, SOkq AlI, gurdws mwn, jgjIq zIrvI, jgq isMG j`gw, jgmohn kOr qy ky dIp Awid dy SoA krvwey hn[

? klwkwrW dy qusIN nyiVEN ivcry ho[ biVAW ny quhwfw mn K`tw vI kIqw…[ keIAW qoN suixAW mYN[

- rwh pey jwxIey, jW vwh pey… ksUr klwkwrW dw vI nhIN[ AsIN aunHW qoN bhuqI qv`ko krn l`g pYNdy AW[ AsIN auhnW nMU mnu`Kqw p`KoN mUhry rKxw cwhuMdy hW jdoN ik aunHW dw ivaupwrk p`K pihlW huMdw hY[ iek bVI Ku`lHI ijhI g`l AY, mYN quhwfy nwl sWJI krnI cwhuMnW, ik iek vwr iek bMdy ny ie`k bVI KUbsUrq iesqrI nMU p`uiCAw, "BweI jy mYN qYnMU iek l`K rupeIAw dyvW, kI quUM myry nwl hmibsqr hovyNgI?" AOrq ny kuJ icr soc ky AwiKAw, 'TIk AY[' iPr bMdw ny ikhw, 'jy mYN qYnMU ds rupey dyvW qW…?' auh AOrq iK`J ky bolI, 'hrwmzwidAw qMU mYnMU kMjrI smJdYN?' bMdw boilAw, 'ieh g`l qW mYnMU pqw l`g cu`kI hY, hux qW sOdw hI qih krnw hY'[ so bhuqy eyh sOdybwzI hI krdy ny, ijs BwA, vDIAw BwA ivkdw, vyc ky qur jWdy ny[ mYN A`j q`k ieh nhIN dyiKAw ik koeI khy ik mYN qYnMU do l`K rupeIAw idMnY qy A`goN klwkwr khy ik nhIN… mYN l`K 'c gw idMnW[ ijs vyly koeI dyKdY ik hux mwrkIt hYgI AY, bMdw PisAw hoieAw, kuimt kr bYTw hY, auh Awpxw ryt vDw idMdy ny[ FweI-FweI, iqMn-iqMn l`K rupeIAw lYxw ikQoN dI AklmMdI AY? jy koeI idMdw hY qW DMn Bwg…mYnMU koeI du`K nhIN, KuSI AY[ pr KuSI hor vI hovy, jdoN brkq is`DU qy pUrn SwhkotI, pUrn cMd qy ipAwry lwl vfwlI vrgy sUPI gwiek vI koTIAW ivc rihx, kwrW au~qy cVHn[ bdiksmqI AY ik A`j auh ivkdY, jo XUQ cwhMudY[ jo k`pVy nOjvwn pwauNdy ny, auhI pwpUlr, jo typ auh suxdy ny, auhI sPl[

? klwkwr dy nwl-nwl keI au~Gy lyKkW nwl vI quhwfI sWJ hY[ ienHW bwry vI kuJ d`so hux[

-hW jI, klwkwrW ivc myrw sB qoN nyVlw irSqw myrw bIjI suirMdr kOr nwl hY[ mYN aunHW dw mUMh boilAw p`uqr hW[ jd vI auh mYnMU imldy ny, ipAwr vI krdy ny qy kdy g`usy vI huMdy ny, qy kdy nwrwz vI[ Swied auh Awpxw smJ ky myry qoN kuJ izAwdw h`k rKdy hox[ ho skdY! pr myry vloN aunHW pRqI kdI koeI gusqwKI nhIN hoeI[ jdoN mYN dyKdw hW, nwrwz hn, mYN cup kr jwnW[ pr moh swzy 'c hY[ moh dI buinAwd kwiem hovy, iPr igly iSkvy hyTW hI rihMdy ny[ SOkq AlI vI myry idl dy bhuq krIb hY, iek BrwvW vwlI sWJ hY[ suirMdr iCMdw myrw idldwr Xwr hY qy hrBjn mwn myry h`QW ivc hI pRvwn c`iVHAw hY swfy pirvwr dw mYNbr hY[ ij`QoN q`k lyKkW dw svwl AY, svrgvwsI srdwr gurbKS isMG 'pRIqlVI' myry bVy nzdIk rhy hn bhuq sUKm purS sn, mYN gwrgI jI dy nyVy hW[ ie`Qy myry kol Aw ky rihMdy sn[ aunHW dI vwrqk dw mYN kwiel hW[ iSv dI SwierI dw mYN SYdweI hW[ BwvyN aus dy jIauidAW mYN aus nMU iml nhIN sikAw, pr aus dy prvwr nwl myrw moh hY, iek pirvwrk sWJ hY[ gurcrn rwmpurI jI, ndIm swihb qy pwqr jI nwl vI myrI nyVqw hY, iekbwl rwmUvwlIAw, gurBjn ig`l, suirMdr DMjl myry krIbI im`qrW ivcoN hn[

? 'surW dy sudwgr' pusqk ilKx dw sb`b ikvyN bixAw[

- mYN qy kdI ieh supnw vI nhIN sI ilAw ik mYN ie`k brwfkwstr bxWgw, qy jW pusqk ilKWgw[ mYN qW kyvl ryfIE leI Awpxy pRogrwm mwVw motw Aqy kmrSIAl ilKdw huMdw sW[ mYN krmW vwlw hW, myry im`qrW ny mYnMU ies pwsy v`l pRyirAw, Kws krky iekbwl rwmUvwlIAw, jo myrw nyVlw im`qr hY[ gurcrn rwmpurI ny bVw hOslw qy surjn zIrvI jI ny myrI swrI pusqk dI sMpwdnw krky mYnMU mwx bKiSAw hY[

mYN aunHW klwkwrW nwl ijvyN ivcirAw qy hor swrIAW g`lW-bwqW jo myry cyqy ivc sn, mYN ilKIAW[ s`c vI iliKAw, ikqwb CpI, msqwnw jI dy Gr igAw qy ikqwb idMidAW mYN ikhw, 'msqwnw jI ikqwb 'c mYN quhwfI QoVI ijhI iKcweI vI kIqI AY?' auh h`sky kihx lgy, "iPr kI hoieAw pu`qr? AsIN lokW dI ieny swlW qoN in`q krdy AW...[" hwsy dI g`l sI[ mYN ienHW swirAW nMU cMgw smiJAw qy iliKAw[ cMgy hn swry[

? ryKw ic`qr pVH ky leI klwkwr nwrwz vI hoey hoxgy, ijvyN gwrgI nwl lyKk gu`sy ho gey sn[

-hW , myry nwl hoey keI[ bIjI… suirMdr kOr… vIh rupey (fwlrW) vwlI g`l qoN QoVy gu`sy ho gey sn[ iksy nMU AwpxI jnm imqI ilKxI cMgI nhIN l`gI[ auhdy Gr vwlI myry gl pY geI[ ijvyN 'AlIgVH dw XUnIvrst' ieh ryKw icqr vI mYN ivAMg 'c hI iliKAw sI[ hr bMdw chuMdY ik jdoN myrI Poto Awvy qW rMg gorw Awvy, A`KW cmkdIAW hox, ichrw muskrwauNdw hovy, mu`CW nMU vwt ciVHAw hovy, hux kYmry vwly ny qW auhI cIz iKcxI AYN, jo kYmry ivc AwauNdI hovy[ so mYN iliKAw[ mYN eynI pRsMsw dw h`kdwr nhIN sW ijMnI ho geI[ pMjwbI qoN ibnHW ihMdI qy aurdU ivc vI ieh pusqk Cp geI AY[

? A`Cw, hux qusIN d`so ik qusIN iek grm gIqW dw qvw vI BrvwieAw sI...[ hOt sONg...[

- mYN d`sdw, beI mYN knyfw ivc iqMn-cwr swihqk irkwrf bxw ley, hr irkwrf auqy Cy-s`q hzwr fwlr lwieAw[ ikauN ik swihqk sI, sO pMjwh kwpIAW mr ky ivkIAW[ kvr au~qy AwieAw ipRitMg dw Krcw vI nhIN muVdw[ iPr qUMbI vwly gIq... mYN iPr soicAw beI jy bMdw brPI lY ky KuS nhIN, pkOVy ql idMny AW[ hlvweI ƒ sB imiTAweIAW bxwauxIAW AwauxIAW cwhIdIAW ny[ pr vIr, mYnMU aus dI koeI KuSI nhIN, jy qusIN kho ik A`gy nMU ieho ijhw kMm krW... svwl hI nhIN pYdw huMdw[ myry leI auh iek qjrbw sI pr bVw sPl is`D hoieAw Aqy ieh Aihsws ho igAw ik Xwr ieh kMm vI ho skdY[ mYnMU du`K nwl kihxw pYNdw hY ik swihqk cIz Ajy vI nhIN ivkdI[ quhwƒ iek imswl idMnW, mYN jgjIq zIrvI qy fOlI dI Awvwz ivc sv: surjIq rwmpurI dy gIq qy gzlW dI iek typ bxweI sI, 'drd khwxI rwqW dI[' auhdw stUfIE dw qy sMgIqkwrw dw Krcw s`T hzwr AwieAw sI[ pihlI vwrI mYN A`j dy cricq sMgIqkwr jY dyv kumwr nMU sMgIq inrdySk vjoN pyS kIqw sI Aqy aus ny Aqy zIrvI Aqy fOlI ny myQoN koeI pYsw vI nw ilAw[ mYN auh typ knyfw ilAwieAw qy iksy typW vycx vwly nMU ikhw, ik Xwr Awh typ k`F lE[ aunHW ny mYnMU isrP Cy sO fwlr id`qw, qy ikhw ik ieh vI quhwfy mUMh nMU dy rhy AW[ ieh sO kwpI vI nhIN ivkxI... qusIN d`so s`T hzwr ivcoN pMdrW hzwr muiVAw kwhdw ibznYsmYn AW mYN[

? nOkrI dy nwl nwl prvwrk izMmyvwrIAW qy klwkwrW qy ilKwrIAW leI vylw -ieh ikvyN Afjst krdy E[

- myrI pqnI mnjIq mwhl qy bytI nqwSw, kdI myry au~qy Gr dy kMmW nMU hwvI nhIN hox idMdIAW[ SnIcr-AYqvwr Cu`tI vwly idn GuMm iPr leIdw, Awey-gey im`qrW ipAwirAW nMU iml AweIdY[

? klwkwrW nMU koeI sMdyS[

- myry iek dosq sv:inrMjn isMG "nUr" ny iliKAw hY:

"klw kI hY, izMdgI dy dIidAW dw nUr hY
klw jlvw, kvI mUsw, izMdgI kohqUr hY
pr klw ny izMdgI dI jwn bxnw hY Ajy,
Awh! klwkwrW ny qW ienswn bxnw hY Ajy!"

gw lYxw hor g`l AY, mnu`KI p`KoN ijs qrHW swfy 'c kmzorIAW ny, auvyN klwkwrW dy ivc vI bhuq ny[ lyKkW 'c vI hoxgIAW, pyNtrW 'c vI… nivAW nMU ieho khWgw ik ieho ijhw kMm kro, ijs dI sdIvI pCwx bxI rhy, lok kMm nMU Xwd krn, bMdy nMU BwvyN Bu`l jwx... jy kMm auhdw jINdw hY qW bMdw qW Awpy jINdw hI hoieAw[

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